Curse

Blame the Monks · Jan 30, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Current: Elite Spell. Target foe and all nearby foes are struck with Searing Flames. Foes already on fire when this Skill is cast are struck for 119 fire damage. Foes not already on fire begin Burning for 7 seconds.

Change: Elite Spell. Target foe and all nearby foes are struck with Searing Flames. Foes already on fire when this Skill is cast are struck for 119 fire damage AND BURNING ENDS. Foes not already on fire begin Burning for 7 seconds.

WHY: This change would preserve SFs power as an individual aoe nuker (which I believe is a useful, strategic, and reasonably balanced role) while eliminating what I see as the most problematic aspect of SF -- aoe spiking, ie the synergy or "stackability" of several copies of SF to do huge amounts of aoe damage by rapidly triggering off of each others burning. As I see it, the problem isn't with one SF ele it is with 6+ SF eles because they can churn out such powerful and fast aoe blasts. This nerf would eliminate much of the incentive to exploit the SF conditional mechanic by running multiple copies of SF and aoe spiking while not killing the skill as a viable build.

Thoughts?

Dutch Masterr · Jan 30, 2007, 05:34 PM // 17:34

i think it should simply be changed to a recharge of 3 to reduce the amount of times you spam 119 fire damage (at 16 fire). that would keep the power but balance it a little.....

way too many threads on this and i doubt it will be changed.

Divineshadows · Jan 30, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame the Monks

Foes already on fire when this Skill is cast are struck for 119 fire damage AND BURNING ENDS. Foes not already on fire begin Burning for 7 seconds.

Thoughts?

That kills the skill IMO for both the fire eles in packs and individually. Currently, a single ele can get 3 casts of searing flames off before the burning ends (assuming it's not removed). Your change would only allow for one cast. This directly affects the ele's DPS and ability to pressure.

Hopefully, this thread does not end up like the last SF thread that I closed.

Patccmoi · Jan 30, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

I could see your change viable if SF went down to 10/1/1 or something. Then you could spam it to burn, damage, burn, damage at will. But at 15/1/2, no, it would actually suck.

Personally i'd just like a Nearby AOE, slightly buffed Immolate. Doing around 80-90 damage at 16 (Incendiary Bonds stats for damage are fine) and burning everyone for say 5s. No 'if burning, if not burning'. It just does its damage and burn, and that's it. But the damage isn't huge, stacking it has no advantage, but 1 SF ele would actually keep the same pressure over 4-5 casts, possibly higher in the end.

Would nerf its strength when running tons of copies of it, but would make it more versatile when all you got is 1 SF (no need to spam it continually since you get the full effect from only 1 cast, so you just cast it at will to pressure and you can have a more flexible build around). Since i'm really in favor of having it strong for 1 but weaker for 4, i'd see this as the best solution.

The way ANet is balancing it, they're making it very bad for 1 but decent for 4, which imo is totally stupid. It's the same kind of fix they did to Recurring Insecurity when they put its duration 1..10s. Basically, the skill was totally destroyed for ANYTHING BUT SB/RI spike (and it already sucked horribly for anything but, they just made it even worse which i didn't think possible), but still worked for the spike since you just needed 3-4s duration for it, if you couldn't rehex target after 3-4s the spike failed anyway. This is really stupid skill balancing and it needs to stop, destroying a skill used in a gimmick by leaving it only viable in the gimmick makes no damn sense.

Symbol · Jan 30, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

I think A.net really really wants you to use Mark of Rodgort with it. Too bad hexes last for about 5 seconds outside of a hex build.

At 84 damage per pop with a 5 sec burn SF would do ~42 dps, which is actually a mild improvement over what a single SF character did before. That sounds pretty reasonable to me, since few people were complaining about one copy of SF in the first place.

I do think it makes the skill boring in a sense, it's just a bigger, badder immolate-but if the "if burning, then do x" mechanic is what's breaking it, then by all means it should be removed.

Patccmoi · Jan 30, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

I think A.net really really wants you to use Mark of Rodgort with it. Too bad hexes last for about 5 seconds outside of a hex build.

At 84 damage per pop with a 5 sec burn SF would do ~42 dps, which is actually a mild improvement over what a single SF character did before. That sounds pretty reasonable to me, since few people were complaining about one copy of SF in the first place.

I do think it makes the skill boring in a sense, it's just a bigger, badder immolate-but if the "if burning, then do x" mechanic is what's breaking it, then by all means it should be removed.

I agree in a sense that it makes the skill more boring. But the 'if burning do X, if not do Y' makes it hard to balance it without being too strong in pack or too weak on your own. And personally i'm really in favor of having elites being worth it in single copies cause you have 8 elites in a team and if you need 4 of the same to have an elite worth it, then you're forced in a gimmick build or the skill dies. And gimmick builds only go so far before they get nerfed or everyone knows how to counter them easily, so basically by forcing skills into a gimmick build you're giving it a limited life span before it's either nerfed if the gimmick was too good or ignored if it was too weak.

twicky_kid · Jan 31, 2007, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patccmoi

Gimmick builds only go so far before they get nerfed or everyone knows how to counter them easily, so basically by forcing skills into a gimmick build you're giving it a limited life span before it's either nerfed if the gimmick was too good or ignored if it was too weak.

With a new release every 6 months does that really matter if a skill has a long life?

Every new chapter is going to introduce stronger skills. Otherwise there would be no point in pvp players to buy it. By next release you'll be saying SF? What's that? New players coming into the game will see the new skills and think "what's everyone's problem that skill sux."

Skills are never going to have a long life span when new chapter are coming out so fast. the only real skill that has survived them all is prot spirit and diversion. I'm sure there are more but its barely a handful.

Now for SF drop the dmg by 25 and leave it be.

Phades · Jan 31, 2007, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Skills are never going to have a long life span when new chapter are coming out so fast. the only real skill that has survived them all is prot spirit and diversion. I'm sure there are more but its barely a handful.

Now for SF drop the dmg by 25 and leave it be.

Prot spirit, RoF, Gale, Eviserate (sorta), executioners strike, hammer bash, crushing blow, irresistable blow, distracting blow, rush, frenzy, distracting shot, savage shot, traps, diversion, faintheartedness, ward vs melee, ward vs foes, obsidian flame, blackout, GoLE, apply posion, res sig (i doubt this one will fade out), holy veil, draw conditions, and many others. I seriously doubt that the core skills are the guide line for where to create a power creep though, but it is the skill set that will get referenced towards when new skills are released unless there is a cloned skill from a different chapter or variation there of.

To assume that skills will always be replaced by something new does not speak well for any game hoping to have longevity.

Arkantos · Jan 31, 2007, 07:28 AM // 07:28

The nerf the last test weekend to SF and GG are good enough imo.

Patccmoi · Jan 31, 2007, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

The nerf the last test weekend to SF and GG are good enough imo.

The problem with that nerf is that it did seriously hurt a solo SF spammer. But 3-4 SF spammers were still quite powerful. So basically instead of solving the problem with the gimmick they made it so the skill was only viable inside that gimmick, which kinda sucks if you ever hope to include it in a balanced setup.

Thomas.knbk · Jan 31, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

They shouldn't have nerfed GG at all imo. Glowing Gaze made the entire fire line more viable, but it only saw play paired with SF because SF is so much better than the other skills in the line.
GG made every skill that caused burning much, much better, without making them overpowered (exept SF, but that was because of SF). To nerf it was stupid imo and I hope in the final skill balance next weekend it will keep its 5 second recharge.